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> Talking about Tolkien - forum rules (noteikumi)

Foruma pamatvaloda – angļu. Ja nepieciešams, palīdzību tulkošanā vari lūgt modiem.

Communication on this forum – basically in English.

Šiame forume bendraujama angliškai.

Käesolevas foorumis toimub suhtlus inglise keeles.

> Slimarillion translations., Common problems in latvian and lithuania
Starlin
iesūtīt 31.01.2005 17:05
Raksts #1


Izrāda pirmās maģijas pazīmes
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This topic is split from discussion about Silmarillion translation. Please keep the non-latvian part of the discussion here.

Khem cool.gif

Sorry to butt in (and sorry to be butting in in English - I hardly understood enough Latvian to register here). I am Starlin, and I am Lithuanian. I stumbled on this messageboard accidentally and since it is the first Latvian tolkienian MB (at least half of it) I encounter on the web, I decided to join in. Why and why this thread? Because, as a founder and proud member of the so-far largest Lithuanian tolkienist community (to be found at www.tolkien.tinkle.lt), I also belong to a group which is translating the Sil into Lithuanian. We've encountered many problems (and believe me, one should first consider many things and rules before translating Tolkien - that's what we call "the great system of translation") but now we have got fairly well-translated Ainulindale, Valaquenta and Beren & Luthien (actually, I've got more on my compy, though it hasn't made its way to the messageboard. Yet. And there are some texts which are not from the Sil). It's slow but it's high quality rolleyes_a.gif So, what am I driving at? First of all, it'd be really great to get to know some Latvian tolkienists (I haven't met many on the net; in fact, only one). Secondly, we'd be glad to share our experience in translating and to find out what problems you encounter while translating.

I hope I don't get banned just because I wrote it in English. Cheers, mellyn!

~Starlin Elvea~

EDIT: if I understand it correctly (mere guess), you've been talking about copyrights. We have our translations on the web, password-protected. That's not against the laws, at least here. The password is guessable, though whistling.gif But you need to be a tolkienist to guess it anyway laughing.gif

----------
Ne gluži tulkojums - bet apmēram:

Piedodiet, ka iejaucos, un daru to angliski. Es esmu Starlins, un esmu lietuvietis. Nejauši atradu šo forumu - un tā kā šis ir pirmais latviešu Tolkīnistu forums (vismaz daļēji), nolēmu pievienoties.
Esmu lielākās Lietuvas Tolkīnistu organizācijas (www.tolkien.tinkle.lt) dibinātājs un biedrs, pie tam piederu grupai, kas nodarbojas ar Silmariliona tulkošanu lietvuski.
Tulkošanas procesā esam saskārušies ar vairākām problēmām (un vispār, pirms sākt tulkot Tolkīnu, jāapsver daudzie noteikumi - ko mēs saucam par "lielo tulkošanas sistēmu) - tomēr, šobrīd esam tīri labi iztulko'juši Ainulindale, Valaquenta un Beren&Luthien (vispar, uz datora man ir vairāk, bet tas vēl nav uz ziņojumu dēļa. Vēl. Ir arī daži citi teksti, kas nav no Silmariliona).
Tas notiek lēni - toties kvalitatīvi. Tātad, ko es cenšos pateikt.
Pirmkārt - būtu jauki iepazīties ar latviešu Tolkīnistiem (līdz šim sanācis sastapt tikai vienu). Otrkārt - būtu jauki padalīties tulkošanas pieredzē un uzzināt, ar kādām problēmām saskaraties jūs.

Ceru, ka mani neizbanos tikai tādēļ, ka rakstu angliski. Cheers, draugi!

~Starlin Elvea~

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 04.02.2005 17:33
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Sākt jaunu pavedienu
Atbildes (1 - 14)
agronoms
iesūtīt 01.02.2005 00:47
Raksts #2


Mācās koptelpas paroles
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Welcome, Starlin!

Can you tell us how did you arrange the translation work? Did you also communicated through some messageboard or via mail-list? Or did you had a tolkienist group assembled that knew each other in real life before you started?
My idea is that the best solution in our current situation would be some dedicated web forum or some other means of e-communication that would be easily accesible to all participants. Do you have any comments on that?

on potential problems -
I guess that the main problem would be to keep that medieval sounding Tolkien's style in the translated text. Guess one should read quite a lot of old latvian books (first translation of the Bible, for example) to get some skill in choosing proper words. The first fragments of the Ainulindale that appear here sometimes sound like it was written for a magazine, not quite the aura you want for that kind of text. smile.gif

--------------------------------
Vai tu varētu mums pastāstīt, kā jums izdevās norganizēt tulkošanas procesu? Izmantojot forumu vai mail-listi/ Vai arī jūs savācāties kopā realitātē, pirms ķērāties klāt? Manuprāt labākais risinājums būtu tieši tam veltīts forums vai cita elektroniskās saziņas metode, kas visiem būtu ērti pieejama.

Par potenciālajām problēmām -
Grūti saglabāt Tolkīna viduslaicīgu stilu tulkojumā. Šķiet, vajadzētu palasīt daudz vecās latviešu grāmatas (pirmo Bībeles tulkojumu, piemēram) lai apgūtu nepieciešamo vārdu izvēli.
Pirmie Ainulindale fragmenti izklasījās kā žurnālam rakstīti, nebija tās auras, kādu varētu gaidīt no šāda tipa teksta.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 02.02.2005 12:04
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Starlin
iesūtīt 01.02.2005 11:37
Raksts #3


Izrāda pirmās maģijas pazīmes
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Suilad!

The MB the url which I have posted above is our headquarters (ok, it's here again). Basically there are two interpreters. One of us translates the whole chapter and posts it on the messageboard. The other then spends hours editing the text (comparing it with the original, fixing the style and any typos that might have occured). All the editing material is posted on the messageboard. The interpreter responds to these, the editor again responds, and all members of the MB can add their comments. When we have what could be called "a pretty acceptable version" we post it on the website. For instance, this is the discussion on Beren and Luthien. There are separate discussions for rendering elvish words into Lithuanian, for translating nomenclature etc.

The style problem is, of course, the most difficult to all us amateur interpreters. What we do is actually using archaic words, archaic grammar constructions (like the dual form) etc. We pick these up from the Bible, from earlier texts in Lithuania, old grammar books.

It'd really be great if we could have some place to discuss this! We could use one of already existing forums - for example, open another thread on ours. We could, of course, create a yahoo group... Lots of possibilities! The only thing is wish to communicate wink.gif

Starlin

---------------------------------
Foruma linku jau rakstīju. Īsumā - ir divi tulki, viens iztulko veselu nodaļu un publicē to. Otrs stundām sēž rediģētjot (salīdzinot ar orģinālu, labojot stilu un drukas kļūdas). Viss rediģētais materiāls atkal tiek publicēts.
Tulks atbild, rediģētājs atkal atbild, visi foruma lietotāji var pievienot komentārus. Kad esam ieguvuši "diezgan pieņemamu versiju", publicējam to lapā.
Piemēram (links) ir diskusija par Berenu un Luthienu. Ir atsevišķas diskusijas par elfu vārdu attēlošanu Lietuviski, par nomenklatūras tulkojumiem utml.

Stila problēma mums, amatieriem, protams, ir visnopietnākā. Ko mēs daram-izvēlamis arhaiskus vārdus un arhaiskas gramatiskās konstrukcijas. Tās atrodam Bībelē, senos lietuviešu tekstus, senās gramatikas grāmatās.

Būtu patiesi lieliski, ja mēs varētu atrast kādu vietu, kur visu šo apspriest. Varētu izmantot vienu no jau esošajiem forumiem - piemēram, atvērt jaunu pavedienu mūsējā. Varam, protams, arī yahoo grupu izveidot - iespējas ir dažādas, galvenais ir vēlme sazināties.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 02.02.2005 12:09
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Nulukkizdin
iesūtīt 01.02.2005 11:49
Raksts #4


Studē augstākās pārvērtības
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Kur: Rīga



Stop it, agronom (refering to a deleted irrelevant one-sentence post). I already said, I am not going to participate in these "activities". Right now I have plenty of ree time, but soon I am going to have virtually none. So - don't count on me.

Really - who is ready to translate this all? I don't see anyone amidst as. You, agronom? Great, who else? Elf? Ok, she might. Saule Pazare? I would not be so sure - not enough knowledge regarding Tolkien's works. Who else? FiKi? Alfirin? Both of them might -but they are not here often enough.

My point is - we need enough knowers of Tolkien (true knowers) who also have a desire and time to translate. And right now such a prospect does not seem serious for me - I don't see the enthusiasm. And only when it will be obvious, that people wish and can translate, we will have a need to find a space were to do it.

But what am I rambling grin.gif Keep up the good work! I would only be happy, if someone translated the book.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 04.02.2005 19:30
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Nimue
iesūtīt 02.02.2005 11:50
Raksts #5


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GP eksperts 2006



Welcome Starlin!

First of all - don't worry, I don't think anyone has any problems with you posting in english - especially in this topic. At least I don't and since I am the one with the delete button I think it settles the question.

Unfortunatly, I don't understand one bit Lithunainan - I can try to generally grasp the meaning of text due to language similarities - but that's about it.

The biggest difference between translating Silmarien to Lithuanian and translating it to Latvian might lay within the fact that Lithuanian language might have the noble forms of expressions, shaped in the centuries of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (Žečpospolita) (if Lithuanian was used by nobles then - which is something I truly have no idea about), while Latvian language simply lacks such a page in the historyo of it's development, being, for the most part, a language of peasants. Therefore we should be able to translate hobbit-talk quite freely (although even that seems to have posed a problem for theofficial translation of LoTR), but with Silmarillion...

On the other hand - since our language does not recognize such style per-se, we don't really have any style to pursue. A suggestion to follo9w the style of Bible is legit, however I am not sure if it would work - it would be very hard to read, that's for sure.
Then again - so is Silmarillion.

In the end - I am afraid, I must agree to Nulukkizdin - we don't have enough people who would both have both - high command of english and love for Tolkien's works this task requires.
We might have a couple - but that's all. On the other hand - if those few people would be enthusiastic enough, and the rest would at least assist with name translations and corrections - it might work. In fact- it seems pretty much like what Lithuanians are already doing.

However, I believe some at passable translation of LoTR Appendixes should be a higher priority right now...
------------------------------------------
Ne gluži tulkojums, bet tiem, kas angliski nesaprot -
Pirmkārt, šajā pavedienā varat iesūtīt rakstus arī angliski .

Es nezinu, kādu valodu lietoja agustmaņi Polijas-Lietuvas kņazistē - bet fakts paliek fakts - latviešu valodu augstmaņi nav lietojuši, tādēļ mūsu valodā atbilstošas episkas izteiksmes formas gluži vienkārši neeksistē.
No otras puses - tā rezultātā mums nemaz nav stila, kuru vajadzētu mēģināt sasniegt. Var mēģināt sekot Glika Bībeles stilam - bet to mūsdienu cilvēkam ir ļoti grūti lasīt.
Kaut gan - arī Silmarillionu ir grūti lasīt.

Es piekrītu Nulukam - mums nepietiek cilvēku, kas spētu tulkot. Taču - ja šie daži pietiekami entuziastiski tulkotu, un pārējie palīdzētu iesakot labākos tulkojumu veidus - varbūt tas tomēr sanāktu. Galu galā - tas ir aptuveni tas, ar ko lietuvieši nodarbojas.
Tomēr, manuprāt, vispirms vajadzētu tikt galā ar kaut kādu daudz-maz ciešamu Pielikumu tulkojumu.

--------------------------------------------

Just a short summary regarding what was discussed about copyrights earlier -

The question came up, when someone suggested posting a full Silmarillion text online on someones personal computer with permanent IP -to which I replied, that it migt not be the wisest idea.

The idea of password protecting text was already mentioned.
Agronom suggested that Silmarillion texts online have no © mark so if we used those, we should not worry - but at least in Latvia © is mostly informative, it is not required for something to be considered protected by copyrights. Tolkien's work is pretected and will remain in that for several decades.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 04.02.2005 19:31
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Starlin
iesūtīt 02.02.2005 12:02
Raksts #6


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Hi, Nimue!

Whatever the copyright laws of your country, I'm afraid Tolkien Estate would politely ask you to remove the text from the web. It has happened here. They find almost all original texts published on the web. But the password thing is a good one: tolkien.ru do use it, and they've got all the texts on the web anyway (with some OCR mistakes, that's true, so it'd be wise to have a book nearby, too). If you don't know how to find them, drop me a PM.

Yes, Lithuania had a good bit of history together with Poland but the nobility spoke Polish, and Lithuanian was and remained till the beginning of the XXth century, a peasant-language. Therefore while there are words normally used in contemporary Lithuanian to translate 'mister' or 'lady', they are of Polish origin and simply do not sound right in the context of the Sil. We do what we can. We browse the dictionaries looking for all possible words.

Just by the way, do any of you interpreters here speak Quenya? One of the most controversial issues in translating Silmarillion for us was how we should render plural forms like Ainur, Valar. I see some 'Ainuri' above in your texts... In my view, it's not really what it should be like. Have you ever considered the issue of rendering plural Quenya forms into Latvian? Is -i in 'Ainur' some plural ending?
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Nimue
iesūtīt 02.02.2005 12:13
Raksts #7


Istari māceklis
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No we don't speakQuenya, but some of us have some general knowledge of it's grammar.

"i" is masculine plural ending in Latvian.

We already had some discussions over this issue (unfortunatly, right now I am unable to find it) - but my point was - Tolkien adds the english plural ending (-s) to his Quenya plural words on several occasions (although this form is never used in Silmarillion), so we might do the same, and add latvian plural ending on top of Quenya one. This allows for declinating of this word, and for my ear sounds better than using a stiff "Ainu"

Adding a latvian singular and plural endings to "Ainu", "Maia" and others sounds slightly weird. (Ainus-Ainusi, Maias) - but that's my opinion.

Others do think differently - but they can speak for themselves.
I am not sure if the interprators above followed my idea, or simply disregarded the fact that "r" already is a plural ending in Quenya.

What was your solution to this problem?

As for copyright law - it was not Tolkien Estate I had in mind, I thought that the company that just finished first publication of LoTR in Latvian might be the first to worry - but the idea remains pretty much the same. It is just that I am afraid that if it came to that, even password protection would not be enough.
At least this answers our question as to who is the current copyright holder. But OK, that is quite irrelevant at the moment.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 03.02.2005 11:29
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Indraja
iesūtīt 02.02.2005 13:20
Raksts #8


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Hi! Labdiena??? (no idea if this is right – but you might understand our Laba diena!) I‘m from Lithuania and from the same mostly on-line community „Tolkien Lietuva“ as Starlin is. In fact, we are playing the game „Let‘s translate The Silmarillion!“ together (and there are some more people helping us). We are amateurs, but we strive to acheive a quality as high as possible. It is very delightful to see you know this game as well. (Please excuse my English).

I do not know if it is against the law to have password-protected texts ‚for personal use‘ (yesss, we took the idea from tolkien.ru), but it should be better than unprotected ones anyway.

Yes, our nobles used Polish as much as they could (they even might be not rich at all, but speaking Polish was a matter of honour). We are not happy about this now. But there are some old poems and other texts in Lithuanian (well, one of the most famous ones is about forest and the other is about peasants...). Fortunately, there are writers from our ‚national romanticism‘ period. Some used really beautiful and ancient-sounding language. One of them, Vincas Krėvė, even created his own sad melodious tales about heroic past (using exactly those words from peasant folktales and songs – they can sound noble enough!). Guess he could have made a perfect translation of The Silmarillion... We try to substitute most of the foreign international words in our translation, and to use some old ones, even a couple of almost extinct grammatical forms, some poetical inversions of the word order (which is quite free in Lithuanian anyway). On the other hand, one must recognize The Silmarillion sounds noble and ancient, but the language is mostly Modern English. Guess it would be wrong to make the translation sounding completely outdated.

Of course, it is very important to establish some rules for translating and transcribing the names. You Latvians are lucky – you are able to write the palatalized l – ļ – exactly where it is needed. (JRRT said L was to some degree "palatalized" between e, i and a consonant, or finally after e, i in Elvish words.) Lithuanians can’t. Also, you can always mark not only long i and u (as us), but e and a as well!

We decided to transcribe Quenyan Ainu, Noldo, Vala, Maia as ‘neuter gender’ (well, some say there is no such gender in Lithuanian and it should be called differently...). Singular nominative is aina, nolda, vala, maja (plural is ainos, noldos, valos, majos). ‘Neuter’ means these words have feminine-looking endings, but are usually treated as maculine. Istar, Avar are treated as masculine: we coined singular nominative istaras, avaras; plural nominative is istarai, avarai (Q. Istari, Avari). Some other words have Quenyan singular nominative in –ë (pronounced e). So we change it to ė (guess you have this sound, but do not mark it in writing): singular nominative Calaquendë became kalakvendė, plural nominative Calaquendi became kalakvendės (well, the ending is feminine, but we decided these words are masculine – it is possible to imagine such words, especially names, in Lithuanian, even though they are most unusual). Of course, a lot of people said keeping –r s is much more beautiful...

We are having some trouble with halflings. In his ‚Guide to the Names in the Lord of the Rings‘ (from A Tolkien Compass by Jared Lobdell, 1975) JRRT has suggested the word must be translated with something meaning ‚half‘, but that might not work in all the languages. There is a word „Sīkcilvēki” in your discussion. Gues „cilvēks“ means ‚a human‘, but could you please explain what „sīk-“ is? And why do you think that other word is wrong? We have a pretty queer translation of halfling in our official LotR translation. It iš „miškavaikis“ (a child of a forest – meža berns?). The story is simple: the translator was only 15 years old. He knew about role-playing games, and there were „miškavaikiai“ in them (the translator of the game had no aim to make the translation suitable for the books). But the translation has found its way there itself...

LotR appendices? Are they translated in a wrong way, or are they not in the official edition?
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Nimue
iesūtīt 03.02.2005 11:23
Raksts #9


Istari māceklis
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Welcome to the forum, Indarja!

CITĀTS
LotR appendices? Are they translated in a wrong way, or are they not in the official edition?

They are not in the official edition. They have kept the underpage references to the said Appendixes in "Fellowship", but the appendixes themselves are not published.

CITĀTS
I guess „cilvēks“ means ‚a human‘, but could you please explain what „sīk-“ is?

"sīkcilvēks" is a compound of "sīks" - adjective, meaning "tiny" and a noun "cilvēks" which you guessed correctly. "sīks" seems to be rather similar to "smulkutis" .
The other word (used in official translation) - "mazļautiņi" is compound from "mazs" (little) and deminutive form of "people". (deminutive - it is like Doggy from Dog. In Latvian we can create such a form for almost every word, however overusage of this form makes the text sound rather childish - which seems to have been the purpose of the official translator - since the target audience were fans of Harry Potter).

So - the first problem with "mazļautiņi" is that such a word might be found in a book about dwarfes and fairies for 4 year olds, not in an epic tale.
Dropping the deminutive, we get "mazļaudis" - it is a legit word of course, but instead of sound like "little people" it sounds like "not enough people". And, it has no singular.


Second - "Little people" is already used in reference to Halflings, and it can be translated only as "mazie ļaudis" (or "mazie cilvēki" - however the first is more accurate) - so if we also pick "mazļaudis" or "mazļautiņi" for "Halflings" we have are narrowing the diversity of descriptions. Therefore we probably should pick something else.


CITĀTS
‘neuter gender’ (well, some say there is no such gender in Lithuanian and it should be called differently...). Singular nominative is aina, nolda, vala, maja (plural is ainos, noldos, valos, majos). ‘Neuter’ means these words have feminine-looking endings, but are usually treated as maculine


That might or might not be the same agronoms (and several before him) has suggested. Latvian definetly does not have a neuter gender - only masculine and feminine. However, there are words which are grammatically feminine (except for singular Dativ), but are considered masculine. What you describe sounds similar.
I simply have a personal preference for "r".
Just a question - in Lithuanian do you have female names Aina and/or Maija?



Thank you both very much for correcting my blunderings regarding the characteristics of Lithuanian smile.gif Seems, Polish in Lithuania has has about the same role German had here.

OK I guess the question right now is... Who is in mood to spend some time editing the portions already translated?

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 03.02.2005 11:34
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Indraja
iesūtīt 03.02.2005 11:59
Raksts #10


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Thank you for explaining these words.

No Appendices? ohmy.gif We thought having No Maps in our new editions is the worst possible thing...

There are no names Aina or Maja, but there are feminine names Ainė (a rare name, meaning "descendant" (poetical)), Valė (short for Valentina; a little bit old-fashioned). There is Quenya feminine singular nominative Valie. We could have written feminine singular "valė", but the worst thing is we can't make a pair f. "valė" - m. "vala", because 'neuter' nouns do not form such pairs, they are used for both male and female persons. If we want distinctive words, we should use f. "valė" - m. "valas". (Of course, transcribing "valijė" is even more correct, but then it won't be able to make a pair neither with "vala" nor "valas", because such words must have the same stem). Some people do not like "valas", because it is homonymous with a word meaning "fishing-line". All the solutions seem to be far from good, but at the present moment we took a natural-sounding "vala" (unchanged from "Vala"). Anyway, guess people won't be insulted when noticing their names are used for god-like beings.

CITĀTS
Tolkien adds the english plural ending (-s) to his Quenya plural words on several occasions (although this form is never used in Silmarillion).
Could you please tell the word and the book? It would be easy to locate it using "find" in a text editor... cool.gif

Oh, just noticed you are translating those English texts. Sorry for making you work that much. Well, we'll learn Latvian pretty soon in this case, having it in both languages...
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Viesis_Viesis_*
iesūtīt 03.02.2005 11:59
Raksts #11





Viesi




seems that there has been some problems with forum's DB...

When I read about latvian language as being peasant-only language in the past, i wrote an angry response but was unable to post it. here it is -


I would also disagree with those who see older latvian language as peasant-only. sad.gif

Should I remind you that one doesn't have to look very far back into history of our language to find many words that sound very old and ar seldom (if not never) used in common speach nowadays?

Should I also remind you of The New latvians (jaunlatvieshi) and The New current (jaunaa straava) who helped to shape our language and culture in the past centuries (or was it century?)? They DID NOT view our language as peasant only!

Or maybe I should remind you of Rainis?? He alone translated Goethe's Faust into latvian and is there anybody who would say that his translation sounds awkward or primitive?


edit:
seems that our lithuanian friends also have "writers from our ‚national romanticism‘ period" smile.gif
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Nimue
iesūtīt 03.02.2005 12:17
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Istari māceklis
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Pievienojās: 29.12.03
GP eksperts 2006



Thank you for your opinion Viesi. That is really a theme worth it's own discussion in one of the other parts of this forum (un lūdzu esi tik labs un dodies uz Cauro Katlu - tur jau pāris šādas diskusijas bija. Šobrīd es vēl apsveru iespēju izdalīt diskusijas par valodām no šī pavediena - kaut arī šeit tas tika apspriests tikai saistībā ar problēmām, ko tas radītu tulkošanas sakarā. Aurori - lūdzu neaiztieciet šo pavedienu, gan es tikšu galā.)

Referring to latvian as peasant-language I was simply talking about the fact, that we lack the high style in the language - because it has never been neccessary and thus has never been developed.

It does not mean a translation would sound awkward or primitive - it simply means we don't have a high style to pursue, so we have one problem less in our translations

That's the problem of conversating in a non-native languages - it is easier to be misunderstood or misunderstand, especially about an issue which touches the most sensitive problem of national consciousness.

------------------

Indarja: Hey, you even have *new editions*. We have only one - last part of which was published only couple of months ago. Maybe they are planning of publishing Appendixes seperately - but so far there have been no signs of such intent.


CITĀTS
Could you please tell the word and the book? It would be easy to locate it using "find" in a text editor...

As for those references - it was in one of the quotes Nuluku copy-pasted in one of the discussions about completly different topic - but so far I have not been able to locate it.
It might have been something from letters or HoME - but I will let you know, if I really find the exact quote. I simply remember thinking "well, this settles that discussion" while reading that particular post. Say all you want about not trusting quotes not from the original source - I admit I am guilty in this.
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I am not translating each every post or all of the text in those I am translating, so it is not that bad :)But honestly - I will continue translating tomorrow, not today.

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 03.02.2005 12:28
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Starlin
iesūtīt 04.02.2005 15:39
Raksts #13


Izrāda pirmās maģijas pazīmes
*

Grupa: Biedri
Pievienojās: 31.01.05



*new editions*: actually, I don't think it was revised or retranslated. FotR was released in Lithuanian in 1994, TTT in 1998 and RotK, if I'm not mistaken in 2001. When RotK was released, there was already FotR film on the screens, so the demand for the old impression of FotR translation became higher. So the 'edition' Indraja is referring to is simply re-issuing the same translation in new covers (and without maps, grrr).

One argument against having double plural-markers (Ainuri and the like): let's take Balrogs: Sindarin sg. Balrog, plural Belroeg - Tolkien doesn't use *belroegs. Also, sg. Silmaril, pl. (one of the 'no-longer-in-use' Quenya plurals, or a plural form even Helge Fauskanger doesn't know how to use cool.gif. I guess it is the -li ending, isn't it? Never mind ) Silmarilli, in the text - "silmarils" (not *silmarillis*) These I can dig up from my mind just now...
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Northwatch
iesūtīt 11.02.2005 21:22
Raksts #14


Prāto, kā lietderīgāk ieguldīt rūķīšu zeltu
*****

Grupa: Biedri
Pievienojās: 08.10.03
Kur: arī pie kapa soli priekšā Tev.



Khmmhkhmm. Hail everyone grin.gif
Nimjuu?

May I try at least just for fun, as I may have some free time in some next months until the exams? For I believe there may be some a lil' easier parts for me as well smile.gif

Afkos the technical part, for I may not be able to do it properly, because of not-have-read-Tolkien thing in my biography grin.gif

I just wanna do sooooomething, dead bored, bored dead....

Šo rakstu rediģēja Northwatch: 11.02.2005 21:26
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Nimue
iesūtīt 12.02.2005 13:10
Raksts #15


Istari māceklis
*****

Grupa: Biedri
Pievienojās: 29.12.03
GP eksperts 2006



Of course you can tongue.gif

Just check the "gp grāmatas" and see how far Agronoms and Andza Aardh are with their translations so you are not doubling each other.

Or you can try editing the already translated portions - whichever you prefer smile.gif
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