Eldar - elves or not elves? Opcijas

[Nimue]

The question could be considered quite tiny - at least the russian translation I have on hand disregards it and simply replaces word "eldar" with "Эльфи".

Does anyone here have a better idea?

Šo rakstu rediģēja Nimue: 09.02.2005 23:48

[agronoms]

Eldar

According to Elvish legend the name Eldar 'People of the Stars' was given to all the Elves by the Vala Oromë (49). It came however to be used to refer only to the Elves of the Three Kindreds (Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri) who set out on the great westward march from Cuiviénen (whether or not they remained in Middle-earth), and to exclude the Avari. The Elves of Aman, and all Elves who ever dwelt in Aman, were called the High Elves (Tareldar) and Elves of the Light (Calaquendi); see Dark Elves, Úmanyar. Passim; see entry Elves.


It seems to me that there ar two options for translating "Eldar"
1) "Elda"/"Eldar" -> "Elda"/"Eldas"
2) Translate from commonspeach "people of the stars" - so "Eldar" would become "zvaigžņu cilvēki" or "zvaigžņu ļaudis". Hmm. Sounds a bit like "aliens".

[Inx]

Jā, zvaigžņu ļaudis derēs! Jo tā jau ir metafora galu galā... Paskatieties uz elfu Three Kindreds (Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri) nosaukumu tulkojumiem un jūs atklāsiet patiesību Būtībā ar šo visu ļoti sarežģīti tiek pateikta viena lieta – elfi ir skaisti. Un tā arī pret to vajadzētu attiekties. tulkot metaforas jau protams ir pavisam cits līmenis, bet man ir pārleicība, ka pa visiem jau galā tiksim.

Galu galā par ELDA tulkošanu. Var/vajag pieminēt, ka ELDA ir pašu elfu valodas vārds, ko viņiem devis lielais vala Orome. Un varam darīt tāpat kā Tolkīns un šo vārdu lietot, kad ienāk prātā

Šo rakstu rediģēja Inx: 09.02.2005 13:16

[agronoms]

... Eldas* ...


* Eldas (no elfu valodas) - Zvaigžņu ļaudis.

kaut kā tā.

[Starlin]

I think that Russian translator has gone too far. I can't check now the translation I own, but there are so many different versions of LotR in Russia that I wouldn't be surprised if another Sil looked completely differently.

Basically, we are translating the English text, just as Tolkien was 'translating' it from Westron (See LotR Appendices), so elvish words, which are unfamiliar for Westron speakers, should be left intact. Eldar is a word in Quenya, its etymologies have been given above. I think all words like Quendi, Avari, Sindar should be rendered, if necessary (and it is necessary for languages like Latvian and Lithuanian), but under no circumstances - translated. Just be wary: I htought that Silvan was an elvish word, until I found out that it comes from Latin silva (?) The same pitfall is Tarn, which is an English word, not elvish.

Have I mentioned "Guide to the Names in the Lord of the Rings"? I don't think there is "eldar" in that list, but in any case, all translators should have it at hand. Only keep in mind that it was intended for translators into Swedish and some other scandinavian language(s)! If you don't know how to find this Guide online, PM me.

[Inx]

Aha... then we shall have to render those words. Maybe that is the best solution possible...

But the problem is, that we don't really know how to bring the meaning of the word ELDA to the reader. Should it be like a reference at the bottom of page or should it be mentioned somewhere in the text? I mean this particular explanation, which, I am not sure, does not appear in open text in Silmarillion: According to Elvish legend the name Eldar 'People of the Stars' was given to all the Elves by the Vala Oromë. It came however to be used to refer only to the Elves of the Three Kindreds (Vanyar, Noldor, and Teleri) who set out on the great westward march from Cuiviénen.

THAT is the problem. In conclusion, I think that we ought to render every elvish word... we could avoid a lot of mess, doing so.

[Starlin]

Relax All Tolkien-newbies all around the world do not understand the meaning of ELDAR the first time they encounter with this word. It is not English, and only someone who has knowledge of Tolkien's languages could deduct the meaning. Of course, if you have a name index, it should include this information. Also, if I did and edition with footnotes, there would be a footnote explaining this. But there is no need to indicate this in the text itself, because you cannot deviate from what Tolkien wrote.

[rudolfs]

Just read in original - I regard attempts to translate Tolkien as fitting for informational needs only, even "the hobit" by Z. Rozenberga; LOR was a doomed affair before it ever started. Have red Silmarillion in russian as well as orig. - not bad, but by far not so good.
If regard translatiosn as doomed affair from the outset, our aim should be to keep them as straightforward as possible and unfortunately will involve sacrificing details to keep text understandable.
- elfi [period]

protams ka elfi kas gan cits